huizi and zhuangzi about gourds

In fact, its hard to think of a thought experiment where the question being asked is not clear. People also read lists articles that other readers of this article have read. Nature, Myth, Realism, The science of futures. It is precisely because we dont know exactly what Zhuangzi is up to that the discussion and wonder are enduring. Mair, Victor H., trans. URL: http://journals.openedition.org/estetica/5889; DOI: https://doi.org/10.4000/estetica.5889, Creative Commons - Attribuzione - Non commerciale - Non opere derivate 4.0 Internazionale - CC BY-NC-ND 4.0, https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/, Vedi la notizia bibliografica nel catalogo OpenEdition, Mappa del sito Contatti Crediti RSS Feed, Norme sulla privacy Cookie Policy Segnala un problema, Noi aderiamo a OpenEdition Edito con Lodel Accesso riservato, Sarai reindirizzato su OpenEdition Search, Briding traditions. Roth, Harold D. 1991. Dordrecht: Springer. Moreover, by elaborating on the implicit premises omitted by Zhuangzi and Huizi, the actual logical process of the debate can be restored, and the logical fallacy of clandestine change of argumentative issue are revealed. Emotion and Agency in Zhuangzi. Asian Philosophy: An International Journal of the Philosophical Traditions of the East 21.1: 97121. over 2,300 years ago He taught the Tao, or way, an approach to life based on effortlessness and harmony with Chuang-Tzu: The Inner Chapters. Wieger, Lon, trans. Zhuangzi himself has traditionally been taken as the author of some of the chapters, although his precise contribution is uncertain. School of Philosophy, Renmin University of China (Zhe-xue-yuan), Av. 1920. Even if we are confident about what to do in an imaginary case, the criticism has been raised that thought experiments dont actually reflect a truth about reality; rather, they just reflect our beliefs about reality13. Hui Tzu10 said to Chuang Tzu, "The king of Wei gave me some seeds of a huge gourd. We show that these peaceful attitudes are associated with the idea of wuwei in the Zhuangzi. For example, Robert Nozick imagines a machine that can give a person whatever experiences she desires.16 While in this Experience Machine the person will really feel the pleasure of those experiences and will not know that its all just a simulation. Zhuangzi: The Inner Chapters. You tell me, what is the problem with the following syllogism? Great gourd , stink tree ), By doing nothing one can accomplish everything. 2011. I filled them with water but they werent sturdy enough to hold it. ______. With Zhuangzi, however, its not clear that understanding his stories is supposed to lead us back to some aspect of human life. Huizi and Zhuangzi about gourds; the story of Cook Ding (sometimes called Butcher Ding); and the story of Wheelwright Pian. The Zhuangist Views on Emotions. Asian Philosophy 28.1: 5567. The thought experiments here and conclusions about the imaginary cases are taken to help defend a certain stance (e.g., against utilitarianism, against strong artificial intelligence) that the philosopher wants to take. Huizi and Zhuangzi about gourds; the story of Cook Ding (sometimes called Butcher Ding); and the story of Wheelwright Pian. Perhaps none other than reflection, broadening of the mind, wonder. vres De Tchoang-Tzeu. endobj Middendorf, Ulrike. In the latter case, the focus is on the idea or question raised, which, Ive suggested, is made patently obvious in a good thought experiment. Les vres de Matre Tchouang. In the story, Huizi was talking about this tree to Zhuangzi, the early Daoist philosopher. 2008. He went on to plant these seeds when they grew too large to be able towater them, he decided to smash them into pieces instead. The Status of Qing in Philosophical Texts of Ancient China. In Expressions of States of Mind in Asia, edited by Paolo Santangelo. In seeking the truth, philosophers have long used fiction and counterfactual scenarios to raise and answer questions, to foster dialogue or give a commentary on some facet of life. All Is Well in the Great Mess. Must? document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Zhuangzi and Huizi were strolling along the dam of the Hao Waterfall when Zhuangzi said, See how the minnows come out and dart around where they please! Leiden: Brill. WebHuizi said to Zhuangzi, Can a ren indeed be without qing? The reply was, He can.But on what grounds do you call him a ren, who is thus without qing? Zhuangzi said, The Dancy, J., 1985, The role of imaginary cases in ethics, Pacific Philosophical Quarterly, 66: 141-153. 2015. One who has achieved the intellectual flexibility to recognize that a gourd (although normally used as a ladle) can (if big enough) also serve as a boat has also achieved the flexibility to see the value in things at which the many laugh.22. Zhuangzi is a master storyteller and he uses that talent to teach important moral Dao 20, 133148 (2021). Introduction: Emotions and the Conceptual History of Qing . In Love and Emotions in Traditional Chinese Literature, edited by Halvor Eifring. (Melchert 86). He is sabotaging the very tools he might have used to explore his unconscious self and discover something useful. WebHuizi and Zhuangzi. This is what the ancients call loosing the bonds. You lose it when its passed. Change). Were There Inner Chapters in the Warring States? Feng, Youlan, trans. A Didactic Annotation to the Zhuangzi . Liu, Qingping. 2000. 1920. https://doi.org/10.1007/s11712-020-09765-6, DOI: https://doi.org/10.1007/s11712-020-09765-6. 4 0 obj Chuang-Tzu. Zhuang Zi . In Dao Companion to the Philosophy of the Zhuangzi, edited by Kim-chong Chong and Kai-Yuan Cheng. crits de Matre Wen , . Paris: ditions de lencyclopdie des nuisances. 30Perhaps if only Zhuangzi and others didnt come up with such memorable traps. What better carriage? WebAnother storyHuizi and Zhuangzi about gourds starts when the king of Weis large gourdgives Huizi gourd seeds. The Tradition of Emotive Writing in the Zhuangzi and Its Echoes in Later Generations. Frontiers of Philosophy in China 10.3: 340352. Napoli: Universit degli Studie di Napoli LOrientale.. Part of Springer Nature. Do you divert the trolley or not? Emotions That Do Not Move: Zhuangzi and Stoics on Self-Emerging Feelings. Dao: A Journal of Comparative Philosophy 14.4: 521544. Sorensen, R., 1992, Thought Experiments, New York, Oxford University Press. No potential conflict of interest was reported by the author(s). Wheres the problem? you might be wondering. If, in time, he turns my left arm into a rooster, Ill use it to crow the day. Zhang, Mosheng, , trans. https://doi.org/10.1007/s11712-020-09765-6, https://www.academia.edu/35172330/Zhuangzis_Doctrine_of_No_Emotions_forthcoming_in_Dao_Companion_to_the_Philosophy_of_the_Zhuangzi_Kim_Chong_Chong_and_Kai_Yuan_Cheng_eds_final_draft, https://scholarworks.iu.edu/dspace/handle/2022/23427, http://www.terebess.hu/english/chuang.html. Tang, Yijie. Watson, Burton, trans. WebAn interesting legend of Zongzi has been passed down through generations from ancient China. Psychology and Self-Cultivation in Early Taoistic Thought. Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies 51.2: 599650. Zhuangzi: The Essential Writings. Chai, David. Lenehan, Katia. WebThe Asian master of wit and storytelling is the Daoist, Zhuangzi (sometimes spelled Chuang-Tzu). Why dont philosophers just state their questions or positions more plainly? Klein, Esther. I further argue that the central concern of the two philosophical personae in the passage Zhuangzi and Huizi is not with the epistemic standards of human judgements (the established view since Hansen, The Relatively Happy Fish), but with the more basic problem of species-specific perspectives. Well end by analyzing a parablea conversation between logician Huizi and a fictionalize version of Zhuangzi himself: Huizi said to Zhuangzi, The King of Wei gave me the seed of a great gourd. Words are for meaning: when youve got the meaning, you can forget the words.26 Zhuangzis fantastical stories, along with the most beloved Western thought experiments, are devices that philosophers use to communicate a certain message, and in Zhuangzis case it might be a message that goes beyond words. . This is a preview of subscription content, access via your institution. Nozicks question is, would you plug into such machine for life? In these classic thought experiments, and many others, there is a clear question being asked. People want to make sense of him and offer a charitable interpretation where the various threads in his writing can be woven together so we can attribute a consistent view to Zhuangzi. We use cookies to improve your website experience. Leiden: Brill. 11As mentioned before, Dancy explains that sometimes we come up with an imaginary case because its relevantly similar to an actual case, but the imaginary case is easier for us to think through. He points out that imaginary cases reveal moral principles to us which we can then use to determine our attitude in a new case10, and this can be especially useful when something about certain features of real cases distracts us from what is actually morally important. Huizi and Zhuangzi about gourds; the story of Cook Ding (sometimes called Butcher Ding); and the story of Wheelwright Pian. Xu, Bing . In both, finding the message of the work or the intention of its creator is not necessarily the purpose of the piece as much as is engaging with it and walking away with something even if that something is not an understanding of the actual work but rather a broadening of the mind, an interesting question, or a pleasurable experience. Perhaps Zhuangzi sees his role as roaming through the world and drawing our attention to the various kinds of creatures and reactions to life they can have, but he himself wants to remain silent on the question of which lives or responses, if any, are best. The point is often to free us from the human perspective. . Zhuangzi and the Happy Fish Dialogue. In Western thought experiments although there often are elements that defy reality as we know it, it is understood that that kind of setup is necessary to bring out certain features of a problem that do correspond to our reality. 2014. Leiden: Brill. Some scholars have suggested that Huizis argument is self-contradictory; however, in fact, based on such evaluations of Huizis argument, we can conclude that Zhuangzis logic is also self-contradictory. The Background of the Mencian Theory of Human Nature. Tsing Hua Journal of Chinese Studies 6.12: 215271. That is to say, we each contain this same oppositional force within and among us. Even though the lessons are in story form, that doesnt mean that they are easy to decipher. WebZhuangzi and Huizi were strolling along the dam of the Hao Waterfall when Zhuangzi said, See how the minnows come out and dart around where they please! Chai, David. Zhang, Gengguang , trans. The Ethics of Responding Properly: The Notion Qing in Early Chinese Thought. In Love and Emotions in Traditional Chinese Literature, edited by Halvor Eifring. Feeling in Zhuangzi: From Joy to Serenity. In Expressions of States of Mind in Asia, edited by Paolo Santangelo. What is there to dislike?There is no commentary from Zhuangzi himself on this story23, except that he writes of other people who also testify that whatever Heaven does to them, they do and should receive without resisting. In Dao Companion to the Philosophy of the Zhuangzi, edited by Kim-chong Chong and Kai-Yuan Cheng. A New Examination of Evidence about the Zhuangzi. Toung Pao 96.4/5: 299369. Now had I used this for holding liquids, it would have been too heavy to lift; and had I cut it in half for ladles, the ladles would have been too flat for such purpose. In fact, there is more value in destroying it than keeping it around. Now imagine we were discussing an idea, say, a potential solution to a problem. And often, they do. Jackson uses this thought experiment to argue that because Mary gains some knowledge the first time she sees red, she didnt know everything to know about color through knowing all the physical facts about color and so, he says, the thesis of physicalism (i.e., the idea that everything is physical) is false.8. The Complete Work of the Zhuangzi . 2007. Beijing : Shangwu Yinshuguan . Provided by the Springer Nature SharedIt content-sharing initiative, Over 10 million scientific documents at your fingertips, Not logged in Napoli: Universit degli Studie di Napoli LOrientale.. Different disciplines have their different tools for doing so. 12With Western thought experiments often the goal is to bring us back to a truth or situation about human life. Foot, P., 1967, The problem of abortion and the Doctrine of Double Effect, Oxford Review, V. Hochsmann, H., Guorong, Y., 2007, Zhuangzi, Boston, Pearson Education. 1913/1983. Leiden: Brill. One reason Think of the crooked tree. Abstract On a prima facia reading, Zhuangzi seems to endorse some form of skepticism or relativism. I planted it, and it bore a fruit as big as a five bushel measure. If he turns my right arm into a bow, Ill shoot down a dove for roasting. 2015. 2018. . Register a free Taylor & Francis Online account today to boost your research and gain these benefits: An International Journal of the Philosophical Traditions of the East, A logical analysis of the debate on Hao River, Department of Philosophy, East China Normal University, Shanghai, China, /doi/full/10.1080/09552367.2022.2108108?needAccess=true. WebHuizis truism that Zhuangzi is not a fish shows some appreciation of the problem of SpR, but the ensuing conclusion that Zhuangzi couldnt know fish happiness assumes that Zhang, Gengguang , trans. Despeux, Catherine. PubMedGoogle Scholar. So I smashed them.2. https://www.academia.edu/35172330/Zhuangzis_Doctrine_of_No_Emotions_forthcoming_in_Dao_Companion_to_the_Philosophy_of_the_Zhuangzi_Kim_Chong_Chong_and_Kai_Yuan_Cheng_eds_final_draft (last accessed on October 12, 2020). Change), You are commenting using your Facebook account. Bradley, Scott P. 2015. Zhuangzi: The Inner Chapters. Zhuangzi - Chapter 1 (Carefree Living) - Huizi's Giant Gords. Insofar as these are aims in philosophy, Zhuangzi might do better in prompting these in his reader than one who puts forth a self-standing thought experiment advancing a particular thesis. https://www.academia.edu/35172330/Zhuangzis_Doctrine_of_No_Emotions_forthcoming_in_Dao_Companion_to_the_Philosophy_of_the_Zhuangzi_Kim_Chong_Chong_and_Kai_Yuan_Cheng_eds_final_draft (last accessed on October 12, 2020). 1 0 obj Google Scholar. This was in the introduction to my book, The Linguist, A Personal Guide to Language Learning which I wrote a few years ago. 1957. 2010. Commentary and Subcommentary on the Zhuangzi . ______. 2Reading Zhuangzi one encounters anecdotes that are not quite the same as a classic Western thought experiment, and yet there are several similarities we might note. Most scholars have understood qing in this exchange as referring to feelings or emotions. We take issue with such readings. This combined with Zhuangzis penchant for irony, the fact that Zhuangzi alludes to fictitious characters and texts, and even takes real figures like Confucius and attributes to the sage things we cant be sure Confucius actually said all of this can make it hard to know what exactly he thinks of the people and things he writes about. 25 One could, for example, think here of Zhuangzis famous butterfly dream that concludes chapter 2 of the Zhuangzi or of his testimony about his reaction to his wifes death in chapter 18. I planted them, and when they grew, the fruit was a yard across. WebHuizi said to Zhuangzi, The king of Wei left me the seeds of a big gourd. Albany: State University of New York Press. The Complete Works of Chuang Tzu. Wilhelm, Richard, trans. Daoism: Laozi and Zhuangzi. In World Philosophy, edited by Jay L. Garfield and William Edelglass. Theory of Non-Emotion in the Zhuangzi and Its Connection to Wei-Jin Poetry. Journal of Chinese Philosophy 40.2: 340354. How does what he say in other places help us to understand what he might be saying in this passage? The debate between Zhuangzi and Huizi has profound epistemological significance, however, the main body of their debate comprises logical inferences and 10While no doubt many thought experiments do function in this way, Dancy is acutely aware that there is something very odd about the idea that we can learn important truths about the way we should behave from an examination of cases which are creatures of our imagination.11 He points out several reasons why we might worry about reasoning from an imaginary case to an actual case. WebZhuangzi, or Chuang-tzu, (born c. 369, Meng, Chinadied 286 bce), Most significant early Chinese interpreter of Daoism and the purported author of the Daoist classic that bears 2003. Graham, A. C. 1981. Emotions and Genuineness in Chinese Native Thinking: A Response to Graham and Hansen ():. Journal of Beijing Youth Politics College 14.1: 4852. Zhuangzis famous story about the crooked tree appeals to me for many reasons. There is no neutral fence on which to sit, but neither is there land immune to the shifting sands of the constantly changing universe. This is a preview of subscription content, access via your institution. The unrealistic nature of a thought experiment is one thing that can differentiate it from other counterfactual reasoning. Huizi took the utility of gourds as being their usefulness as containers or drinking vessels, and so concluded that the gourds in question being too large for this purpose had no utility; Zhuangzi pointed out that there is a perspective that Huizi had not considered -- utility not as a container but as a raft -- from which this is not so. Our text offers three additional examples: Nie Ques conversation with Wang Ni; Huizi and Zhuangzi about gourds; the story of Cook Ding (sometimes called Butcher Ding); and the story of Wheelwright Pian. I planted them, I filled it with liquid, Ma, L., van Brakel, J. Revisiting the Exchange between Zhuangzi and Huizi on Qing. I planted them, and when they grew, the fruit was a yard across. Cheng, Anne. Contrast the greater man with the lesser. 29I will end with one of my favorite passages in the Zhuangzi, from chapter 26 in which he writes, a trap is for fish: when youve got the fish, you can forget the trap. Zhuangzi. Xu, Bing . Dao 20, 133148 (2021). vres De Tchoang-Tzeu. 2010. Were There Inner Chapters in the Warring States? Article Early Confucian Perspectives on Emotions. In Dao Companion to Classical Confucian Philosophy, edited by Vincent Shen. New York: Bantam Books. 1995. Chong, Kim-chong. Nozick, R., 1974,Anarchy, State, and Utopia, New York, Basic Books. 2016. Such a tree has grown to a ripe old age by adapting itself to its environment. Saggi in onore di Diego Marconi, Portale di risorse digitali in scienze umane e sociali, Differences between thought experiments and stories in Zhuangzi, Catalogo dei 610 riviste. Emotionless in Confucianism and Daoism: A New Interpretation. Journal of Chinese Philosophy 38.1: 118133. Shun, Kwong-loi. Master Chariot is one of many characters Zhuangzi discusses who is odd, for lack of a better word, and perhaps Zhuangzi would like us to see that Master Chariot, as well as other unique characters in our communities, are people who still have a voice and should be paid attention to because they may have important things to say about living naturally and freely. In The Sacred Books of the East, edited by F. Max Mller. In this article we focus on the famous dialogue between Zhuangzi and Huizi concerning the question whether or not ren (in particular the shengren ) have qing . Emotionless in Confucianism and Daoism: A New Interpretation. Journal of Chinese Philosophy 38.1: 118133. 2015. My teachings are like this.. Why should we be so troubled by an arm that turns into a rooster? Such distractions can be left out of fabricated cases so that we can better focus on the relevant moral principles. And like Zhuangzis creative innovation, turning a gourd into a boat, the greater, higher man recreates what is possible for himself. Are we just engaging in irresponsible moral epistemology in using hypothetical thought experiments and taking them, at best, as tools of persuasion to belief in a certain claim and, at worst, as grounds of evidence for a position? 2004. He believes he knows what a gourd is capable of and useful for; and therefore, he believes that his conclusion about his great gourd is correct; therefore, he believes that his trials (filling it, cutting it into a dipper, etc.) Hui Shis questions reflect a narrow empiricist epistemic approach while Zhuangzis replies intimate that Hui Shis notion of how one knows is too restrictive (even This seems at odds with Zhuangzi as one of the two main How extraordinary of the maker of things to knot me up like this. Zhuangzi. ______. Zhang, Mosheng, , trans. 19To be fair, I should note that Zhuangzi doesnt always leave the reader in the dark as to what a story is about or what he himself thinks of the characters involved. His logic must be correct, as proven by its consistency with itself; therefore, he feels justified in taking vengeancein mocking, destroying, demolishing, and abolishing all those things which make him too keenly aware of the conflict. First, we demonstrate that, while Huizi probably understands qing as something like feelings or emotions, Zhuangzis view is that having qing is connected with making shifei judgments whereas having no qing means that shifei has no grip on those ren, especially the shengren. A New Commentary on the Zhuangzi [in modern Chinese] . There is a question in the literature about whether Zhuangzi is more of a relativist or a skeptic15, and it is often hard to pin down what his own stance positive stance is, if he has one. 2009. 2014. The yak and the weasel. 2003. ______. Again on Qing: With a Translation of the Guodian Xing Zi Ming Chu. Oriens Extremus 47: 97159. https://scholarworks.iu.edu/dspace/handle/2022/23427 (last accessed on November 27, 2020). Jinan : Qilu Shushe . In Les pres du systme Taoste. ______. 2018. 2011. A true language learner must be like the crooked tree of Zhuangzi, not seeking perfection of form, but prospering by taking advantage of surrounding resources. 2004. It wasnt that they werent wonderfully big, but they were useless. Tax calculation will be finalised during checkout. Zhuangzi said, The minnows swim about so freely, following the openings wherever they take them. Google Scholar. By utilizing modern logical analysis tools, this study reveals what and how the propositions and inferences contained in the language of the debate are articulated accurately and strictly. Puett, Michael J. Fundamentals of Comparative and Intercultural Philosophy. Emotion in Pre-Qin Ruist Moral Theory: An Explanation of Dao Begins in Qing. Philosophy East and West 53.2: 271281. 1993. 1889. The Drunkards And The Tavern A Poem by Rumi, An illustrated ebook of Vigyan Bhairav Tantra translated by Lakshman Joo. 5 Howick Place | London | SW1P 1WG. New York: Seven Bridges Press. Commentary and Subcommentary on the Zhuangzi . With Zhuangzi, on the other hand, the people, animals and objects that defy reality do not necessarily teach us something about a reality of our own lives, except perhaps the idea that we are often limited by those realities. Zhuangzi; The Complete Writings, translated by Brook Ziporyn, Hackett Publishing Company Inc., 2020. Beijing : Shangwu Yinshuguan . One could, for example, think here of Zhuangzis famous butterfly dream that concludes chapter 2 of the Zhuangzi or of his testimony about his reaction to his wifes death in chapter 18.
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